Mohamed Nasheed blames Abdulla Yameen for anti-India sentiment in the Maldives, calls joining China's belt and road a mistake

New Delhi: The Speaker of Maldives Parliament and the former President of the country, Mohamed Nasheed, has blamed opposition Abdulla Yameen for "fueling" the anti-India campaign in the country calling it a "fabricated issue". Speaking to Zee Media's Sidhant Sibal, Nasheed said, "people of Maldives will never, never back an India out campaign... Indian families, Indian doctors, Indian teachers, Indian accountants, and all this is contributing to our economic development." 

The Maldives President Solih recently issued a decree to ban anti-India protests calling them a threat to national security. Police authorities also removed "India out' banners from Infront of the residence of Yameen, leader of the opposition Progressive Party of Maldives (PPM).

Slamming Chinese investment policies that have created debt, Nasheed who was also the former President of the country explained, "China has intentionally inflated the price of the project.." "Look at what is happening in Sri Lanka, it is so sad," he said, adding "it was a mistake that we took part in road and belt initiative." 

His visit to India comes as part of ongoing high-level engagement as covid crisis abates. EAM Jaishankar was in the country just last month. He also did not rule out standing for Presidential elections in the country next year. Asked about who was responsible for the attack on him, Mohamed Nasheed said, "I don't know. The police must tell me, the courts must decide."

Q: How do you see India and Maldives relations?
A: Thank you very much and lovely to be in your show again. I came here this time for the Raisina dialogue, and the dialogue has changed and become so big. 1200 delegates, more than 80 countries, it is very very exciting. India, Maldives relations are another reflection of that, it has been proved drastically since we came into the government, we have an India first policy. Our foreign policy is India first, exactly in the same manner as India's foreign policy is Neighborhood policy. There is a credit line for projects which India is assisting us and the government is submitting very good projects and they are all going very nicely, the cultural exchanges, the capacity-building work, the students' exchanges, the university exchanges, everything is happening and we have a very bright future, both our countries. 

Q: Bright future, but we have seen certain segments indulging in anti-India campaigns and you have taken a strong position on that. Will it help to curtail these campaigns? And who do you think is responsible for these campaigns..
Mohamed Nasheed: You know, people of Maldives will never, never back an India out the campaign, I am aware of that. I am a politician and saying this, knowing that I will get more votes by saying it. Because we eat the same food, we watch the same films, we read the same books, we look the same, and why would any sane Maldivian ask an Indian to leave, no. There are Indian families, Indian doctors, Indian teachers, and Indian accountants, and all this is contributing to our economic development. For instance, the State Bank of India has single-handedly invested in our tourism industry for the last 50 years. Look it's a billion billion-dollar industry now. The businessman appreciates this, the people appreciate this, I really do not think it is a popular movement at all. 

Q: Your govt has taken actions against this campaign, more actions expected? also, if you can talk about the bill against such campaigns...
A: We suggested that there should be legislation, the penal code must, and there is one on nuisance, harmony. Freedom of expression is not limitless, it cannot engage, it cannot be used for hate crimes, it cannot be used to create discord, it cannot be used to create rifts, it cannot be used for increasing xenophobia. That kind of unprogressive backward ideas, backward views, so, we thought there can be a legislation that explains, people cannot create anger, rifts, hate against our Neighbours. Quran is very clear, that you should love your Neighbour. So legislation must also come and explain that you should love your Neighbour. We can't shout at our Neighbour. If you have a problem with a Neighbour, you can come here, this country is a democratic country, it has its intuitions. If president Yameen has an issue, why doesn't he come to a court here, if he thinks? There is no issue, it's just a fabricated issue and he is fueling it.

Q: So the anti-India campaign is an election ploy or a foreign hand?
A: It can't be an election ploy, because people don't want it. It can't be an election thing. Where is the funding coming from for the T-shirts, where is the funding coming from for all the trips they make. Where is the funding coming for the campaign, I am sure our authorities are aware of that.

Q: Are you pointing out at China?
A:  Well, before I say that police must open up an investigation.

Q: Coming to other aspects of the relationship, the development partnership, we have seen the development projects..how do you see they are helping in the development of the country.
A: Well, you can't equate development to concrete, development is not more concrete. President Yameen thought development is concrete and got this Chinese concrete to the country and created this huge debt. Now if you look at it, debt has no relation to the assets created. The asset value is not a third of the debt. China has intentionally inflated the price of the project, so the business plan will fail. You will never get a yield to pay back the debt from these assets and then you default and they ask for equity, with equity you lose land and with land you lose sovereignty. It is a very very grave issue. Look at what is happening in Sri Lanka, it is so sad. Whatever India gives to us is very very transparent, it goes through a proper tendering process, and therefore we get the proper price. You have to have the proper price. When we were in government in 2010, I asked GMR for a quotation on the bridge and they, I remember they gave a quote of 76 million dollars, it is now built for 350 million dollars. 

The housing projects. A luxury apartment in Male can be built for more 900 -1000 Rufiyaa square feet. These houses are 1900 Rufiyaa square feet. They are supposed to be low income. Therefore, the rent will have to be 14-15000 but people can't afford that. So that the govt can't afford the rent. Now the government is subsiding the rest. The flats will not give the money to pay back the loan. The actual cost must be found and that is the money we have to pay. These small grant projects, the high impact projects, the projects that have a better impact on our livelihood, are far more important. I will give you an example. Recently Dr Jaishankar came to Male, Maldives, to Addu and he opened 2 projects. One was 50–60-million-dollar policy academy and another was 500-million-dollar drug hospital and detoxication center. The whole community was there with EAM Jaishankar. No one turned up for the 50-million-dollar thing. India is giving a lot of small grants and I don't think we are looking for big concrete, For instance, we need nature-based adaptions, and hybrid adaptations and these things can be done through smaller interventions than huge big loans. 

Q: So you essentially saying India was right by staying away from Chinese connectivity projects and the debt crisis it has created as you gave the example of Sri Lanka
A: Of course, India was very right for not taking part in that, but India was never taking part in someone else's projects. EAM Jaishankar was saying that they do a self-assessment and their foreign policy is based on their self-assessment. Not based on what someone else is doing and I think, it was a mistake that we took part in road and belt initiative.

Q: Talking about the Indian ocean, you're at the heart of the Indian Ocean, how do you see your security and practical cooperation like the Colombo security conclave that can be taken forward
A: Well, in 2011 we started all the National security Advisors meetings every year. We also have lot of exercises training, joint exercises with our coast guards and the Indian navy and Mauritius, Seychelles and Sri Lanka. I think these programmes are going and they are going appropriately and hopefully they will find a structure in itself and this would assist you in our safety and security. 

Q: Coming to domestic politics, your country is gearing up for the Presidential elections. Will you stand for elections also, there seems to be infighting within your party
A: Well, our party does these internal elections and they have a primary to decide that. If you for instance look at the United States, they shout at each other in their own party. That is how they get a person. Then this person goes to the nation, it's upon our members to decide who they want to bring out as their presidential candidate. I think I have always said I will take part in a primary, but I am hopeful I will win.

Q: So you do not rule out you will stand for elections next year?
A:  I don't want to rule out, if people of our parties, our members decide that I will be contesting I will do that. I will do everything that will benefit our party and our country.

Q: You also want to change the political structure of the country from a presidential to a parliamentary.
A: Well, I have always thought that a Parliamentary system is far appropriate for the Maldives, for smaller countries especially because there is more security. Right now, if a parliamentarian wants to question the minister, we have to give a 4-day notice and by the time 14 days are up, the question has expired. There is more engagement, more interaction, there is more scrutiny in the Parliamentary system, especially for a small country.

Q: There was an attack on you, who was responsible?
A: We still have not found it. Authorities have found 4 people who were, who had their hands on it. But who funded it, who schemed it, who designed it where did they get the technology for the bomb, how did you detonate this. So there is a thousand question that still needs to be answered and I hope and believe the govt will do it.

Q: But any indication who did it? Why will someone target you?
A: I don't know. The police must tell me, the courts must decide.

Q: You have also been pointing out at rise of extremism, which has been a worrisome factor.
A: Well our youth are getting alienated. Dropout rates are increasing, employment among youth is increasing, the drug is increasing and all these together push you to these unnecessary actions by the youth. We must take care and must try to build a better society that is able to assist our people, able to serve everyone. I think deradicalization programmes and also employment and training for the young people is very important. 

Q: We have two regional groupings, SAARC and Bimstec. Do you see the Maldives becoming part of the Bimstec grouping?
A: Well, SAARC is not working. Whatever is said and done, we need to work together. We need to work together, Indian ocean countries, Indian ocean rim countries, we need another platform. 

Q: Would you like to be part of the Bimstec?
A: We need another platform; I would not mind yes to that. We need a platform where we can cooperate and where we can collectively decide on things.

Q: Russian invasion of Ukraine, what is your opinion on that, on also impact on your country in terms of commodity prices
A: Well, actually I really don't want to talk about other countries' business, but every country must respect sovereignty. War should never be a solution. I hope Russia will be able to a ceasefire, start talking and solve these issues amicably. This has an impact on all of us, tourist arrival, food price, energy price, everything is going up. It will be far worse if the war spreads to other European countries. There are warmongering countries, and when they do fight, my god they do fight. We have seen the 2 world wars during the last century. And we don't want to see another one. Why do u want to kill so many people, that is in no one's interest? I hope they will stop.